The Whole You: Exploring Action, Voice & Inspiration with Robin Rice

Intro: 0:36

Welcome to Story and Horse, a podcast where we hear stories from Creative lives. Meet new people, hear about their challenges and triumphs, and get inspired to move forward with your creativity. Now, here's your host, Hilary Adams.

Hilary Adams: 0:58

Hello, thanks for joining me here on the Story and Horse Podcast. I'm your host, Hilary Adams. I'm a creative coach and theater director and founder of Story and Horse. I offer personalized coaching for creative people. And here on the podcast, I share stories from creative lives. Today we are joined by playwright Robin Rice. Welcome, Robin.

Robin Rice: 1:20

Hi, Hilary.

Hilary Adams: 1:22

I recently had the great joy of directing a staged reading of a short play a first draft of a short play that you did about with goats. So that was a first for me, we actually had to live goats as well as actors. So how many of you start us off by telling us a little bit about who you are and what you're up to?

Robin Rice: 1:49

Well, that short play, thank you very much. Hillary has sparked a full length play. Which involves goats, as well as well. They have speaking parts now. And and there's also a German Shepherd and a troll - talk about being creative. I'm halfway through the full length play. I think that this is this shows where creativity comes from if you can choose pick and choose from lots of parts of life, and pull it together and say what would happen? What would happen if two goats and a troll happened to pop out of pop out of their story? The troll - "whose trip trapping over my bridge? Oh, no, you don't." This is a very foul mouthed troll actually have to curb this troll because otherwise children can't watch the play. Very raunchy.

Hilary Adams: 2:47

So Robin, tell us a little bit about how you got started in in playwriting.

Robin Rice: 2:52

I'm old enough to say that this is my third career basically. And it's kind of an amalgamation of everything else. I started out as a political science major in college, and went on to be a newspaper reporter. And I segwayed I always painted and did art. So I segwayed from that into getting a couple degrees in art in Art Education. And I was worked as a printmaker for years. I love printmaking, visual art, fine art, printmaking. And then I got involved with a great big theater community theater group in New Jersey, that where I at first, I was doing set design. And then I got on the script committee, and I didn't like their scripts. And so I started, I got another degree, and I got a master's degree in playwriting. And I moved into New York City them and kind of, you know, took the bull by the horns. And I found that, of course, playwriting, creating a play that is bigger than just writing it in and it involves not only involves other people involves collaboration, which is the joy, the meat of the whole thing. And when writing plays, I don't just get some people say, Oh, you're so good at writing dialogue. And I try not to answer back because that's a silly thing to say. The dialogue is not it. It's, it's what you're writing about what does the main character want, but it's lights and sound and movement. And I think my art background, you know, feeds feeds right into this.

Hilary Adams: 4:47

And I know you have a really very large collection of plays that you've written and successfully published and produced. What type of plays Do you would you say that you write

Unknown: 5:01

magical realism is probably the main way to say what, what I use and more and more. I've gotten to use have animal characters and plants and inanimate objects because I'm sure I did a lot of thinking about this. When I knew I was gonna do the podcast, and I realized that it's not so much that I I've always had had pets and loved animals and plants. But it's because we can then see through their eyes, they're looking at humans. Why are the humans acting the way they are? Why are they doing that? Is that a good thing to do? Which is a very interesting point of view. But the two most exciting things that have happened recently happened this morning. I got, I was contacted by a woman and she's doing her universal Unitarian churches doing an auction. And she's offering dinner and a play. Reading, and the people who come to the dinner will do the play reading. Oh, wow. And she chose a play of mine that, whoo, it involves a nude model for the diskobolos back in Greek times. And the Greek god of beans Kyamites kind of, you know, it's a really, it's a pretty sexy play. She chose it, she's paying me. So there it is, and I wish I could be a fly on the wall. And the other other person who wants to do a play of mine, he they're doing it he wrote, he said, he's so excited, he really wants to do, it's a play with no dialogue, only lights, the actors carry lights with different colors, which represent their changing emotions as the lights change colors. And I'm so excited that he's so excited to do that. Yeah, and I have a play being done out in Russia, in a little town somewhere. This is all just

Hilary Adams: 7:13

So before we got recording here, you told me so great. something that I wanted to circle back to because I thought was really interesting about the physicality of the creativity of printmaking. And I know you're not doing that right now. And I was just wondering if you could just talk a little bit about that. The physicality, you're saying that you miss it. The print world.

Robin Rice: 7:34

This is interesting. I, it reminded me of a class I was in when I was studying for my masters in playwriting. I remember being in a fairly big class, bunch of us, maybe, maybe 20, people sitting around a great big table, and the subject cave of physicality came up. And we went around, the teacher asked us to go around the circle, and who, who used physicality in their plays, who actually saw what was happening, because a lot of beginning playwrights have a problem with the like, somebody will exit, and they won't leave enough time for anything to happen before they come back in. Or they have, they often have somebody exiting and someone entering at the same time always, which is kind of fake. And I remember, we went around that table. And I was the only one who visualized what was happening on stage when it was happening. Now, is this the cause of my art training? I don't know why. And I can't understand how you can write a scene and not see. Hmm, I mean, it a director might change it, of course. But a play has to be action. And not necessarily physical action, but it has to be a lot of where are you in that space? When you're the actor or the character. There when I read through the script, I always have this thing where I you know, I write on the computer, and then I'll reach a certain point where I'll print it out, and then hold it and read it myself. And I'm, I move then I didn't never thought about this before. But I'll bet that has. That's helping me a lot, too. Yes, it is with the physical part of what I'm writing. I can get some of that out.

Hilary Adams: 9:38

Yeah, so you get them walk here while you're talking through.

Robin Rice: 9:41

Yeah, and I do more than walking around. I like if somebody falls down, I fall down and I punch and I do that.

Hilary Adams: 9:49

Yeah. So see actually do the physical the Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Isn't that interesting? Huh? Huh.

Robin Rice: 9:56

I didn't think about Yeah, okay. This is good.

Hilary Adams: 10:01

Do you do you find when you have to pull the thread a little bit, because I'm so curious. So when, when you're doing that, do you find that, um, I don't know anything about your rewrite process. So I don't know if this is anywhere on target or not. But do you find that there's inspiration for rewrites are for new ideas from that? Okay.

Unknown: 10:20

Oh, yes. Oh, yes. It might feel awkward. It doesn't work. It just, I mean, I'm not an actor, so I can't. I don't really, really think But I, because my brain has done at the same time, okay, at this point, she falls to the plan the play that I'm writing right now. The goat play. I'm the lead, I'm the lead. I'm not really the lead character, but I am. And she has a physical problem. She can't she has myotonia congenita, which I have actually, which is a muscle condition that you're born with where you're, you can't You're not really flexible unless you get warmed up. Like you can't just jump up and walk across the room. She's, she's, um, she's got it. She's sick. She's a goat herder. But she's got this problem and the whole, her whole want in the play is to do something about it. And she's been told by a frog, that music is what she needs. And so her journey is, she goes from the farm. She's in a story, actually, she has to get out of her story, book story. Get to the she decides in New York is where she has to get to because the frog and several others told her New York's where there's a lot of music. So she's going there. And we'll see what happens. But she can't walk easily. She has a real physical limitation. And I'm doing a lot of working through this physically, while I'm writing it, to see where she how she feels, and how can she walk. I mean, her story. Her storybook story says that she's called Joyous Jelly while she's not joyous, Joyous Jelly, the goat herder it says goes skipping gaily across the field. Now she can't skip across the field. No, I have to work this out physically. What's it feel like to her? And what does it look like? She she wants to hide her disability from others. So what's it look like to them?

Hilary Adams: 12:42

The pause is because I'm thinking through, there's so many there's so much richness in that starting from the fact that she's has to extract yourself from an existing narrative, which, which is sort of always part of a hero's journey, but is not often quite as literal. As I know. You're talking literally she has to extract yourself out of an existing narrative. And it's so interesting to me that the that metaphor which often exists in a hero's journey, is is literal in her case.

Robin Rice: 13:13

And of course, the goats take themselves out of their story. Yes.

Hilary Adams: 13:19

Which is very goat like,

Unknown: 13:21

To rescue her. Yeah. Because she's gone to New York, and their journey is going from the field in Vermont, to New York to rescue her.

Hilary Adams: 13:34

Isn't that beautiful? I just feel like it's so goat like - they'd eat themselves, like they eat the pages that they're in or something like they

Unknown: 13:40

Oh, they are there. They - Oh, this gets more complicated. But yeah, she's got pages. It's actually it's an it's an old People magazine that she found that she's learning about what real people are like in New York from this old People Magazine. And every time she's not paying attention that goats are eating it. Yeah. As you can see, I'm a very realistic playwright. It is real, that the emotions are really real. She's going to go back. I think I haven't written Act Two yet, but I'm pretty sure she's going back. I know she's not going to stay in New York City. She's going back to Vermont.

Hilary Adams: 14:19

I can't wait for Act Two.

Robin Rice: 14:22

I'd like to know what's gonna happen too. All I know his music is important.

Hilary Adams: 14:29

Hmm. As you learn her movement and physicality. Are you hearing specific music?

Unknown: 14:36

The main music in the play is brought by one of the goats. Now here's something very interesting that people don't know. Well, they don't know about myotonia congenita anyway, because it's very it's quite rare. Have you heard of the fainting? Fainting Goats? Yeah, it's the same disease. So one of the goats. I'm afraid that they're not both the same goats that you did. One of them's the same one. The other one is having babies and getting milked and stuff. So there's a new goat, who the farmer has brought up from Tennessee from a herd of Tennessee fainting goats, and this new goat. So she has the same disease as the protagonist, Julie, and that guy really wants to go back to Tennessee. So he keeps she keeps humming, singing the Tennessee Waltz. "Oh, I was waltzing with my darling. You know?" so that and that's so old that it's not. It's okay, I can do this.

Hilary Adams: 15:43

Yeah, that's clear of copyright.

Robin Rice: 15:45

Yeah.

Hilary Adams: 15:48

I love the way stories emerge you're waiting for it to, to emerge.

Unknown: 15:53

Yeah, I'm very, you know, I think I know what may happen but I'm trying very hard not to lay that on top of myself. Hmm. Because in a play what? What happens in the end should should come out of what's happened before so and I'm not finished with what's before so I can't lay it on yet my main problem so far has been um Is this a play that children can watch or not now that this troll is this troll is coming in with a filthy mouth yet. I think I really want the play to be okay for any age. And so I've been working the last couple days in giving the - I'm not sure - well I know what words are not going to be okay for kids that they won't, but I've been coming up with words that I hope are okay that this troll will use. Such as what the poo poo poo turd I think I could probably get away with that right

Hilary Adams: 17:00

get away with that. Yeah, and poo is funny.

Robin Rice: 17:03

Fart?

Hilary Adams: 17:04

fart fart farts are funny. Poo is funny for kids. Absolutely.

Robin Rice: 17:08

Dork head. Mm hmm. I got a whole list here, snail butt.

Hilary Adams: 17:14

Hmm. Reminds me - Shakespeare did all of those insults - those great Shakespearean insults. These are these are troll insults.

Robin Rice: 17:23

Okay, yeah, I think that's what I'm, I'm going to do. So it's okay for any age.

Hilary Adams: 17:28

Especially because the the understanding will be there that that's not appropriate language as a troll should not be actually using those troll insults. And I know you and I know you're writing. So I know that they'll be clear that that is not actually appropriate behavior.

Robin Rice: 17:43

And Julie says things like, gee whiz. So yeah, yeah.

Hilary Adams: 17:50

So you know, when trolls use bad language, that's not okay. either. You know?

Robin Rice: 17:57

Oh my God, I wish you were here in New York.

Hilary Adams: 18:03

I would love to direct this is so much fun. So I'm gonna like pivot us a little bit because, because I want to hear I know that you have a creatively themed story that you're that you'd like to share with us. And I was so looking forward to hearing it. So you're sharing your story?

Robin Rice: 18:23

Well, yeah, I've got two branches of this. Okay. One is I was digging down thinking about this and trying to think where, because I came from a creative family. Mother was an artist and a poet, and I have sisters who are artists and all this stuff. So there was no problem with being creative. But where specifically did my stuff come from? That's one branch. And the other branch is three books that I realized. Not only I mean, I read them when I was little, I still have them. And they really impacted my creativity all the way through. So okay,

Hilary Adams: 19:07

yeah, these are intertwining branches clear. Yeah,

Unknown: 19:12

yeah. Yeah, it's all twisted together. But I do realize that, um, it's a lot of lot happened when I was 12. So it's my 12 year old story, and I've written 12 year old characters a lot. That's a pivotal time for kids. It was really pivotal for me, because I had rheumatic fever. They put me in bed. I never really believed I had it, but supposed to, you know, it can give effect your heart and you die. So they put me in bed and I was not allowed out of bed for over a year.

Hilary Adams: 19:52

Whoa.

Robin Rice: 19:53

Yeah, for a 12 year old. You know, this pandemic is nothing.

Hilary Adams: 19:58

Wow.

Robin Rice: 19:59

Yeah. And so that obviously was a year. I mean, your friends get tired of coming over. So you're by yourself a lot. And a lot of that time I couldn't read because my fingers were were swollen up. I guess I really was sick. I didn't admit it to myself. My fingers were so swollen and hurt so much. I couldn't turn the pages of books. Oh no. I'm thinking about what did I have to do? Um, this was a long time ago and they got a 10 inch black and white TV for me at one point there. But what really what I really interacted with was our cat's and a salamander. One of my second grade teachers gave gave me a terrarium when I would got sick with this. The terrarium had a little orange salamander in it. And it also had a tea berry plant that had berries. And they were hugely important to me. Um, I had a praying mantis when I got sick, I had a praying mantis friend. And I kept that praying mantis for a long time. I didn't I don't remember talking to stuffed animals. And so I think I was too old for that. But the cats - we didn't and we didn't have a dog then. But the cats the salamander, the teaberry plant and the praying mantis were really important. And I thought, you know, they could, they knew what I was saying to them, and I paid very close attention to them. And at the same time, in there, I had been what I had been reading books about how to be a ventriloquist. And I really wanted to be a ventriloquist. So thinking back on, I realized I didn't want to be on stage. I wanted my words to be heard and my feelings and my stories to be told through the mouth of, I don't know, dolls, or stuffed toys, or whatever. Something the glass. Um, and I think that that I never got so I could do it. But I really, really, really, really wanted to throw my voice and have it come out somewhere else. And now when I think that Well, that's what you're doing if you're a playwright.

Hilary Adams: 22:50

Like, your throwing your voice.

Robin Rice: 22:52

Exactly. Somebody else is saying it for your somebody else. Yeah. So that's the story. Um,

Hilary Adams: 23:04

and those those animals and the plants were your friends. It sounds like was that?

Unknown: 23:11

Oh, yeah. Mom used to always say, oh, doctors made house calls back then- here comes Dr. Solomon, get the cats get the animals off the bed quick. And actually after? Soon after, I when I was I guess I was 13 they we got a golden retriever, who was my most treasured pet? Forever. He went everywhere with me and I went, I mean that that dog was my heart.

Hilary Adams: 23:48

What was his name?

Unknown: 23:49

Chief - Chief Tawny Shenango of Hillcrest. And I still think about him. I couldn't even after he was hit by a car and killed. I couldn't look at Golden Retrievers for years after that. I just couldn't because and so I was 13 and 14 when I had him and yet, um, you know, I think I treasured that dog as much as any human friend I really. So yeah, you walk, like I would go for walks in the woods with the dog and talk to him and tell him things, right. You it's it's a bond that you have with your pets and sometimes more with some than others. Certainly. And that was the time, the time of life. You know, when you're like middle school. It's a very formative time of life. When your parents won't listen to you or you don't want to tell them things. Yeah, and so you want to know my three books?

Hilary Adams: 24:58

Desperately. It's a cliffhanger for me. Yes, please.

Unknown: 25:05

The Little Prince by Antoine de Saint-Exupery. I, um, I have a My granddaughter gave me a pop up book of it. That is just it's astounding but that I took some notes. Oh, okay. Here's a couple quotes "in order to make his escape I believe the little prince took advantage of a migration of wild birds. " Okay, there you go, is that beautiful? And I read this when I was probably, I don't know, grade school, okay. And and of course, the most popular quote from that book is "one sees clearly only with the heart." The Fox says that to the Little Prince, and it's everything really. And in that book, it's a it's a pilot who crashed the Saint-Exupery was a pilot. And he did crash in the desert. And he wrote, so he wrote this story about an imaginary little prince who appeared to him in the desert. And he he asked the little prince many questions, but the little prince never answered his questions. Never. Which is a very good pointer for playwrights. Which, yeah, don't don't feed the answers to the audience. Let them experience it themselves and discover themselves. It leaves you and that book does what I like to do as a playwright, which is leave the audience thinking, give them something new to think about. And I thought of my plays that are direct spin offs from that book. One is Lola and the Planet of Glorious Diversity, which is a big cast. And it takes place just after there's been a world war and there's nothing left on the planet, except these eight people. And they have to figure out how to create a new world, and hopefully a better world. This comes straight out of that book I read when I was a kid. Um, another book that I still have. The Thurber Carnival is by James Thurber. It was written in 1945. And my parents must have had this book. It's short stories, and cartoons, and fables, lots of animals, talking houses, birds, fish, all kinds of things. And I think the I think that Stephen Sondheim must have loved Thurber, because of the magical crossover between story and fable. And real life, right there. I just looked through the book again. And I realized that about three quarters of it went over my head, because I was a little kid when I was looking at it. And a lot of it was sexual stuff that I totally, totally didn't get. But I loved how there were many situations there like uptight family, husband, wife, maybe kids their situation, maybe sitting around the dinner table all being very proper the way you should the way I was brought up in New England, we were very proper, we didn't say bad words or any of that. And Thurber always throws in something that breaks the ritual, something like the troll, right. And this is a primary thing to try to do in playwriting, which is break a ritual right at the start. Change change it up. Oh, Thurber, definitely affected me. And the third one is and this is where it's not magical or magical realism, but science which I almost became an entomology major in college. I love insects. In fact, I did, took quite a bit of entomology. The Earth for Sam, was written in 1930. I don't know where I got this book. But I dug it out for this podcast and I opened it. And on the first page, it says, this is written in little kid handwriting: "This is my favorite book, exclamation point." And it has 1947 which I can't believe I read this book when I was six years old. But I said it was my favorite book. It's a it's about

Robin Rice: 30:06

I'm looking at you. It's it's about how the Earth was formed. It's a nonfiction book, geologic periods going through Santa zoellick's Paleozoic all of them how algae first crept out of that boiling hot ocean and became eventually became creatures with legs and dinosaurs and then goes through all of the all the geologic periods. And it's very interesting at the end, it presents now this is from 1930. It presents a variety of different pictures of what the future of Earth may look like. It does not foresee what's going on now. It does not foresee humans wrecking the Earth. Which is one of my main plot lines or theme I plays is how the heck are we doing what we're doing? Um, but I'm, I'm interested. I mean, I, I colored in this book with, you can see it's a little kid coloring the black and white drawings in. But that book really, really stuck with me and affected me. So watch what you give your kids to read.

Hilary Adams: 31:32

And I love the fact that you were artistically inclined already to

Robin Rice: 31:36

Oh, yeah.

Hilary Adams: 31:37

So to make it become color from black and white.

Robin Rice: 31:41

Yeah, all my old book, I have a lot of the old books I had when I was a kid and I colored.

Unknown: 31:49

It was nice that my mother let me do that, you know, parents wouldn't let their kids do that probably one of the best tools I've found for playwriting, and I'm imagine it works for many, many, in many areas, not just artistic areas, is to write a list of okay, you got a you, you've got a question. Like you're blocked? How does Adam get out of the bathroom? Okay, here's my question. Just write a list, everything you can think of. I mean, maybe it's as simple as kicking the door down, or shouting for help. But maybe, maybe he's got the ingredients in the medicine cabinet to make a bomb for maybe, maybe he uses takes apart the towels and braids a rope and goes out the window. You know, they brainstorm and don't let reason get in the way. Just write everything you can and then use what helps you

Hilary Adams: 32:53

that's a great inspiration takeaway for people? Is there anything else you'd like to offer as an inspiration?

Unknown: 33:01

obviously, I'm not creatively blocked. And so this is sort of my advice that is often not wanted by people in the playwriting groups I belong to. But I say it anyway, when I need to, which is that you can't just go off spinning into thin air you structure is very important. I'm talking about playwriting now, but it can be any any of the arts. I know, many actors, go write plays. And okay, they've got a leg up on me because they really understand it from the actors point of view. But you can't just write dialogue. As I said earlier, it's not just dialogue, you have to know the basic structure of what constitutes a play. This is where I always recommend Stuart Spencer's book, which is a basic, what is it? The playwrights guidebook is very good, you need a class, or something. Um, it's, I think structure is a is a very, it's a simple thing. But, but I'm relearning it over and over and over, because it's very hard to do. To have every scene be actually a microcosm of a play, to have every scene has a conflict, somebody wants something, somebody doesn't want that they're in conflict in that scene, you got rising action, you got a crisis, and you have a resolution in every single scene. And then you have to have it for the whole play. If you're writing short plays, a lot of people don't understand this, you know, very popular now short 10-minute plays, but you have to have the same structure there. It's not a skit, if it's a play. Um, so I just wanted to throw that and that we can get wildly creative, but we need to, we also need to know what to use like on that long list of different things you could do. What what are you going to use and then what else the other the other things you bring to this creative endeavor? Whatever. The endeavor is they should relate to each other, you don't just pull them out of thin air from here and here and here. Or maybe you will, but you'll find that they relate to that you make a whole.

Robin Rice: 35:40

One last thing. But this is one of something I've discovered. And it's a generalization, but I think it's, there's an element of truth here, which is that there are basically two kinds of people, the watchers and the doers. I've traveled quite a bit. And I was on a trip in Africa with my husband. And he is he's been when I started writing plays, he started going to Africa, he's been 19 times, but what he does is, and I'm not saying this is bad, I'm just saying he's different than I am. He is very happy to sit in a van all day, every day, and watch the animals. I don't like doing that. I mean, went during the migration, it was pretty incredible. But I would prefer to go to my college where I take place in a work project and work painting walls and digging up weeds and doing something. But it doesn't it doesn't need to be that rigid a divide. But I think if people find themselves watching rather than doing and they wish they are - they wonder, they wonder how to be more creative, right - try doing- and it's scarier. Sure, you're taking chances you're putting yourself out there, maybe you can do it. Maybe you can. I was in charge of decorating a high school gym for an all night. My daughter's graduation all night party call in all the volunteers, all the parents right, and I had them painting different murals for the theme. And never forget, there was this man who said I can't paint I never painted I don't know how. And he didn't he never had and he didn't know and I told him just start just start and it was wonderful. I loved when he started and he got so into it. I'm not saying what he did was gorgeous. But it was good. It was wonderful. He felt so good. So.

Hilary Adams: 38:00

yeah, that's the starting of it is the doing of it more back to the physicality again yes. Right. It's about getting that action going about the about the sort of embracing the world in terms of really moving your body into it the whole

Unknown: 38:17

you not just the brain and not just the body but all of it. Mm hmm. The Whole You. very cool, huh? Well, you're doing is more wonderful.

Hilary Adams: 38:33

Thank you. Thank you so much for talking with me today. It's a joy to talk with you there are so many things are such it's such a rich conversation My head feels wonderfully fall and I'm I've got all these like things to process and I can't wait for act 2, and to read the play that had a small part of the early genesis of -- tell us your website spelled out

Unknown: 38:56

www dot Robin Rice - R-O-B-I-N-R-I-C-E - playwright, play - W-R-I-G-H-T.com

Hilary Adams: 39:11

Yep, thank you. So that's playwright, as in the craft of playwriting.

Robin Rice: 39:16

Thank you, Hilary.

Hilary Adams: 39:20

Thank you so much for joining me here today. And for anyone who wants to reach Story and Horse you can find us on Instagram and Facebook@storyandhorse and at storyandhorse.com. And Robin, thank you again, I can't wait to work with you. As a director. I love working with your, with your material, because it is so rich, and it's visual. But it's also kinesthetic. And now I know more about the physicality behind it, which makes sense because I always feel like there's so much texture and richness in it. And it gives the actors myself and the other collaborators including the designers and technicians, a full world to inhabit and to bring to life. So thank you. Thanks so much for joining me here today. And for everyone else, thank you for listening. And please join us again to listen to the next episode of the Story and Horse Podcast. Thanks, Robin. I really appreciate it.

Intro: 40:14

Thanks for being with us today. Please help us spread the word by subscribing and sharing this podcast with friends. We look forward to you joining us for the next episode.